Installing vent-free ProCom stoves

Summary...

I purchased two ProCom vent-free 25,000 BTU/H gas stoves from Northern Tool and Equipment. Could not install the first one because of factory problems and exchanged it for one which eventually worked. The second heater worked okay with some finagling. The replacement for the first stove would not work on my home natural gas line supply. Regulated my home gas supply and now both stoves work as ProCom intended. The experience showed me that ProCom could use a lot of improvement and Northern Tool gives excellent service. If you're thinking of installing a dual-fuel vent-free ProCom product, please read the entire story...

Installing vent-free ProCom stoves

I ordered two ProCom vent-free gas stoves, model QNSD250T, from Northern Tool and Equipment on September 23, 2015.

Received both heaters very promptly on September 29, 2015, less than a week after my order.

My installer ran a new gas line to the dining room for one of the heaters. He used ProFlex CSST (corrugated stainless steel tubing) which is new to me. This is a very nice gas line system which costs more than steel pipe, but saves on labor and claims to be safer than pipe.

(The other stove was purchased for our hobby room, which isn't yet ready for a heater.)

On November 16 we unpackaged stove #1 and read all the instruction booklets and papers. These stoves have a dual-gas feature which allows them to use either NG (natural gas) or LP (liquid propane). This feature works by choosing the appropriate inlet port during installation. A special inlet fitting is screwed into the chosen gas port on the regulator and it presses a plunger inside the regulator which selects the type of gas to be used.

Since I have NG, we tried to screw the inlet fitting into the NG port on the regulator, without success. The male inlet adapter appeared fine, but the female regulator port seemed either cross-threaded or not threaded full length. It would catch a little less than one full turn, then the threads stopped.

The literature also shows a special cap which screws into the unused port on the regulator. This cap didn't appear to be included in the parts.

So as not to waste the installer's time, we unpackaged stove #2. This stove had the special cap already installed – on the NG port.

We moved the cap to the LP port and the inlet fitting screwed into the NG port without any trouble.

At this point we hooked up the lines and pressure tested everything. There were no leaks, so we turned on the gas and tried to bleed the lines. (The gas lines have air in them and must be bled before the pilot will light.)

We couldn't get the pilot to light, but if we applied a flame to the thermocouple for a few seconds, the main burner could be turned on and would run until the thermocouple cooled down.

By now I was very unhappy with the apparent lack of quality control on both stoves. They look really nice and the idea of a dual-fuel regulator seems clever, but apparently building this sort of regulator successfully is difficult.

After staring at the very nice looking, cold, stove #2 for a couple of days, I called ProCom customer service on November 20. My installer had told me that he could replace the regulator or regulators as needed, if I would get the parts and a repair manual for this model stove. My user manual showed the major parts of the stove and gave part numbers for ordering them, including the regulator, but did not show how they went together, so this seemed reasonable.

ProCom customer service answered quickly, and the first person I talked with appeared knowledgeable. They informed me that the user manual was the only manual available for this stove, and that the regulator must be replaced at the factory. They also asked me for the symptoms which indicated a regulator problem. I told them about the pilot not lighting on stove #2 despite good gas flow and the main burner working. They told me that this was an indication of low gas pressure (below 6" water column) and I should contact my gas supplier. I told them about the bad threads on the regulator of stove #1. They told me to contact Northern Tool about returning that stove.

Since I live in town and use a major natural gas supplier (Columbia Gas of Ohio), the representative's statement about low pressure seemed unlikely. I called Columbia Gas and they indicated I have a single regulator system. The standard pressure at my meter could run between 10 and 13" water column.

The gas piping from the meter starts at 1" and reduces to 3/4" before changing to the new CSST line which is 1/2" equivalent. That runs to the shutoff valve for the stove, where a short flex line finally connects to the heater. The pressure should be well above 6"!

Reading the user manual one–more–time, I came across a statement about gas pressure. It said that in the case where NG pressure was too HIGH (more than 9" water column), the regulator would cut off gas to the pilot in case the installer had incorrectly selected the wrong type of gas. This "high pressure switch" could be disabled by turning a screw... (Page 22 on the QNSD250T Owner's Operation and Installation Manual)

I turned the screw two turns counterclockwise and the pilot lit immediately.

Now stove #2 worked, and it looked just great. It even regulates to some degree, which means we won't have to continuously readjust the flame.

Since I'd solved this problem myself and I preferred not to return stove #1, I took another look at that regulator. On close examination, the LP port threads looked normal but the NG port threads appeared to stop less than 1/4" into the regulator. I purchased a tap for the threads and tried to figure out how to use it without damaging the plastic valve plunger or getting thread cuttings in the regulator.

Checking how the tap would fit in the port, I saw something move which shouldn't. Closer examination under a magnifier showed that the port had actually been fully threaded, but the female threads were filled with stripped out male threads.

Reconstructing the sequence of events, it looks like the special cap had been screwed onto the NG port (as it was on the good stove), but screwed on with so much torque the threads were stripped right off the soft aluminum cap. This let the cap fall off (thus the missing cap), and the male threads clogging the port prevented the inlet adapter from screwing in.

I carefully pryed the stripped threads out of the NG port. (see picture) The regulator port appeared undamaged and now the inlet adapter installed without any trouble.

I disconnected stove #2 and borrowed the special cap from it. Then I connected stove #1 and tested for leakage. Nothing leaked. When I tried to light the pilot, the same thing happened as with stove #2. Turning the "high pressure switch" screw two turns counterclockwise allowed this pilot to light. Now I had two working stoves, but would need to get another special cap in order to use both of them at once.

Unfortunately, stove #1 shut itself off, burner AND pilot, after less than one day, and the pilot would not relight. So now I'm back to using stove #2 and asking Northern Tool for an exchange on stove #1.

To summarize my experience so far (November 27, 2015), the QNSD250T vent-free gas stove looks very nice and can work well, but factory quality is dubious at best and the complexity of the dual-fuel regulator may cause problems which the end user will have to solve on their own. Now I'm going to find out how Northern Tool and Equipment handles returns/exchanges...

Watch this page for updates.

Update 12/15/2015...

On Wednesday 12/2/15, I contacted Northern Customer Service to arrange for return of stove #1. I explained the problem to the CS representative, including the history. The representative told me to contact Procom and ask them about getting replacement parts. He indicated that ProCom DOES provide parts and suggested that my tech could install them. He gave me a toll-free number to call. The number didn't work!

The number appeared to be one of the abandoned toll-free lines which has been converted to spam-like advertising. After I plowed through about a dozen ads, it finally said that the number I was trying to call had been changed and gave me another toll-free number. When I tried the second number, it turned out to be another ad feed. The second number did not offer a third number.

On Friday 12/4/15 I called Northern CS again. I asked the representative about a contact number for ProCom and she repeated the same number as before. When I told her about what I'd encountered, she said she would look into it. Then I asked about exchanging stove #1. This CS representative walked me through the return authorization process and although it had been longer than the 45 days Northern allows for free shipping on defective merchandise, she gave me a "one time" free return shipping label. A link to the label arrived by email.

I boxed up the stove and on Sunday took it to a UPS store. It was picked up there on Monday 12/7/15.

Today 12/15/15 – one week later!!! -- I received the replacement stove from Northern. THAT'S FAST!

Once again, Northern Tool and Equipment provided GREAT service.

HOWEVER, after unpacking stove #3 and noting that not all the styrofoam or cardboard protection was included in this factory-sealed shipping box, I disconnected our working stove #2 and connected up the new one. (I'm getting pretty fast with teflon tape and a pipe wrench.)

As expected, the pilot didn't light. I could fire up the main burner by applying a flame to the thermocouple for a few seconds. Once the flame was removed, the main burner shut off in less than ten seconds.

Turning the "high pressure switch" screw two turns counterclockwise didn't work this time.

I'd found another reference to the "high pressure switch" problem in ProCom's six-step Quick Guide to Vent-Free Heating Products. In this one-page Guide, the cure for high natural gas inlet pressure is to "Rotate the set screw counter clockwise 2-3 revolutions." So I tried turning the screw another half-turn counterclockwise, then another. Nothing helped.

I called the ProCom "technical support line" at 877 866-5989, and the woman who answered gave me the same story as before – low gas pressure. I told her the pressure runs high, not low. She then told me I'd have to regulate the pressure down to less than 9" WC. I asked about the instructions for bypassing this 'feature' and she admitted that the instruction existed, but said that since it still didn't work I would have to adjust the stove regulator so the gas pressure was below 9" WC. I asked how and she said I should get a gas technician to do this.

In one sense I'm glad that one stove out of three works, or I might think that something was wrong with my gas supply. This despite the fact that over 39 years at this location no other natural gas appliances have given me trouble (two furnaces, three water heaters, three other vent-free heaters and at least four kitchen stoves). In another sense I wish that none of the stoves had worked, since then I wouldn't have grown fond of the lovely flames and want to keep a stove which so obviously has design issues, poor quality control, and essentially zero support.

Now I'm sitting writing this and debating if I want to ask my installer to try adjusting the regulator on the stove (at least another $100 service call) or just give up and ask Northern for a refund.

Update 12/28/2015...

A lot has happened and I've accumulated some depressing news about natural gas appliances in general and ProCom dual-fuel stoves in particular.

My installer and I tried to figure out what the ProCom CS representative meant. The only accessible control we could find on the regulator was the "high pressure switch" screw. We tried setting it every half-turn from two turns clockwise to four turns counterclockwise with no useful results.

It seemed clear from the calls to ProCom and the heater literature that the regulator would work on a natural gas pressure between 6 and 9" water column. The pressure from my natural gas supplier probably runs higher than 9" water column. So I called a local distributor of gas furnaces to ask if they had ever seen this sort of incompatibility problem.

OUCH! An old hand at the distributor gave me an earful.

Apparently the manufacturers of gas heaters and water heaters have been changing their regulators such that they will no longer work at line pressures which were once considered normal. Most will work at pressures up to 13 or 14 inches of water column, but no higher. In the past 25 to 50 inches of water column was considered tolerable, and regulators would keep their output steady from a few inches on up. The newer regulators will shut down (including the pilot) when the pressure exceeds a preset limit, typically about 1/2 pound-per-square-inch (about 14 inches of water column). But this isn't standardized. The distributor has had customers whose appliances would shut down intermittantly, as their natural gas line pressure varied with temperature and demand. The gas company doesn't worry about this, as it's the customer's problem once they supply natural gas at sufficient pressure that it can be regulated down to what the appliance needs.

Apparently ProCom has taken this nonsense one step farther by putting a "high pressure switch" on their regulators, then a means to defeat the switch, and then a backup high pressure cutoff device. I suppose the older regulators which simply worked at any reasonable input pressure were much too simple to continue building.

In any case, since I want to run two of the ProCom stoves, and we bought a modern pilotless kitchen stove last summer, I decided to bite the bullet and had my installer build a regulator and install it in line with the gas supply to the house. It regulates the incoming pressure (which runs around 13 inches of water column) down to between 7 and 8 inches of water column, depending on demand. Cost was around $200 installed.

My regulator setup is a little fancier than needed, because I had a low pressure meter on hand and wanted it installed so I could read gas pressure as supplied and after the regulator. You might be able to get a home regulator installed for around $50 less than this setup.

They say that all's well which ends well -- I'm not so sure, but hope all your heater installations go much more smoothly than mine.